Say it ain't so! A night with no hypercross? My eye is starting to twitch . . . I feel the tremors coming on.

Have you considered offering more than 300 points for creating hypercrosses? Creating a hypercross with ten clues takes as much time and effort as creating ten cryptopixes or OWWs, but it "pays" only 30 points per clue.

Yes, I know the points don't matter, but you'd be surprised what people will do for meaningless incentives.

If you can't afford to give more points for a hyper, you could always feed us some fruit!

Six degrees of kevin bacon...not quite sure where to take that but think it could be fun

I have several in the works, but had put them aside work on something else. Guess I need to get cracking!

And I agree - perhaps more points for creating would be good.

Hm, I thought you had a glut of those since they were showing up unfeatured, and kept trying to think up stuff for the other puzzle types. I'll see if I can finish my hypercross and then see if it meets your standards.

I want to cry... I guess my other Hypercross is no good either. I've had an idea for one for a while but I've held off creating any puzzles until the queue got cleared out a bit more. stupid me. I'll get crackin' as well.

Will we at least get some feedback from the moderators as to why our hypers stink? They take a long time to create (at least 10 times more work than the typical crypto, I would say) and there is no point trying more if we don't know why our other submissions don't measure up.

I just submitted a new hypercross, and I've got a few more in the works.

What everybody says is true: they take a LONG TIME to create!

sob - no game - I'm going to go away now....nothing to do - no reason to stay. no creative ability - cannot help solve the problem - will not make it worse by whining

How about making the "more think, less search" idea across the board on all puzzles? OWWs send me on internet scavenger hunts to dig up obscure tidbits far more frequently than hypers do...

[10] I personally don't mind the research puzzles - as long as it isn't excessive. I would like that more than what renfurdson outlines in [1], which I think I would find extremely painful. But, that's just me.

I also don't know how we are supposed to guarantee something that is "a fun theme that everyone knows about" because I can guarantee that no matter what the theme is, there will be people who don't get it. Like the "famous people" idea that was mentioned. Someone who might be famous to Americans might very well be unknown to someone elsewhere in the world, even if it is George Washington. I have already seen plenty of such comments from people concerning such issues.

I just created and added another hypercross. But I got Tanga messages on all my images saying that they couldn't be processed. I created these hypercross images the same way I've always created them, so I suspect this is a Tanga problem. I certainly hope it's temporary.

Edit: The problem was fixed!

I've got two HCs sitting in the queue that I really enjoyed putting together.

I would recommend a 15 clue limit on HCs. Restrict the size a bit. I've seen them with near 30 clues, and I won't even try it, especially after it goes into the archive.

If you make the points for solving related to the number of clues (even in the archive), they'll be more popular. Here's an idea: 3 pts/clue in the 1st 24 hours, and 1 pt/clue thereafter.

I know people will complain about the HCs they've already solved that weren't worth as much, but points are silly anyway. Get more people solving them and you get more people creating them.

Another quick thought ... aren't you supposed to be able to submit true multimedia images? I've tried submitting animated gifs, but they don't survive the upload.

If animation was allowed, that would help people get more interested in it. And if I'm going to animate 15 clues or so, I'd really like more than the 300 points.

Maybe instead of a flat 300, you could go with a per clue thing for creators too: 25 pts/clue (implement a max/cap to keep it under control) and 35 pts/clue if it is animated (assuming the animated thing gets enabled).

I know that most people here have seen this - and it's not directly on target, but for others who may not know about this forum, here are a collection of guidelines for puzzle makers...

http://tanga.com/forum/blogs/1044-Puzzle_Makers...

I submitted a new hypercross yesterday, but last night the pics still said, "Your media file will be processed soon." Rich Pardoe took a look at it and had me edit one of the words to see if it would cause the pic to load. Nope. So he told me he would reject the puzzle and I should resubmit it and that way the pics would probably load.

Well, I did the whole thing over again (which is no small feat on dialup), and still none of the pics are loading. They all give me the same message.

Help!!! Why is this happening? And what can I do about it?

I'm having the same problem as [16]. I reloaded all the pictures, and they won't process. I tried both .jpeg and .jpg, to no avail.

[16] It looks like all puzzles submitted since Saturday night are having this problem... must be an issue with the server that processes the images.

[7] Part of the problem is that the mods aren't "rejecting" hypercrosses, because then they can't be resubmitted... the author would have to recreate the puzzle grid from scratch. Mods also can't edit them like the other puzzles, in order to help make them more presentable. And just like it's more work to create a hypercross, it's also more work to review them and construct useful feedback. That being said, I believe that now that we're finally getting used to this new job, I think you will start seeing more pro-active feedback from the mods on the hypercross submissions.

[18] Great - thanks for the info! I am looking forward to the feedback.

Two questions:

Are hypers back now on a regular basis, or will we just see them from time to time until more good ones come in?

Since there was a hyper last night, should we be using that puzzle as a basis for what a "good" hyper is supposed to be like? I am wondering why that particular hyper passed muster when apparently so many others did not. I am especially wondering because it was not exactly a well-received (or highly rated) hyper.

[19] And that...my friends...is just ONE man's opinion.

[20] Judging by the ratings, comments, and TGs I received asking for help, I certainly wasn't the only one to struggle with the puzzle. That doesn't in any way make it a bad puzzle, nor am I trying to say that it was.

I do admit I was very frustrated with a few of the clues last night, and I let that slip into my comments way too much.

Looking back at it now, for the most part, I find the clues well done. The crossing letters on several of them provided good help. I do find 2 or 3 of the clues very difficult to figure out simply because I saw nothing on which to base a search. On the other hand, on many that several other people struggled with, I found to be quite obvious.

I do honestly want to know why your puzzle was selected. I am NOT saying it shouldn't have been. Since it was the first one published after the hiatus, there has to be good reasons why it was selected. I think it would be beneficial for other authors and would-be authors to know those reasons. That coupled with the feedback Murdoctor says we should be receiving from the moderators should help us all make better puzzles.

[19][21] In my personal opinion, the response to any one single hypercross should not be used to gauge what is "good" or not. Just as some solvers will like a puzzle and others will not, the same can be said of the moderators... so there's really no telling why puzzle A may be chosen over puzzle B. And since the mods only "nominate" the puzzles to be featured, there's no telling how long it may be until they are featured (if at all).

I would really hope people don't take it personally or try to read too much into why some puzzles are chosen. The fact is that this is a very subjective situation, with many people involved... so hopefully we wind up with mostly good stuff bubbling up to the top.

With the hundreds of different puzzles in the queue, there may yet be gems in there to be unearthed... but the fact is that the percentage of available hypercrosses versus other puzzle types is low, and the percentage of hypercrosses that have been "accepted" versus the ones that have been passed over is also quite low. That doesn't mean that they've all been reviewed already (quite the contrary)... but it does translate to a current deficiency in featurable hypercrosses.

[21] Thank you for your clarifications! I appreciate your response.

As the creator of mostly hypercrosses, I try to make my clues as clear as possible but I am sure that I fall short on some. What may seem crystal clear to me, may not be to others. I do take all comments to heart when creating further puzzles - it is always helpful to have feedback from solvers.

Anyhow, I just wanted to speak up in response to the negative feedback because I had also noted some positive feedback in the comments section on the puzzle. It appears that there were some that enjoyed it as well.

As for how or why puzzles are chosen, I do not know - but I can tell you that it is quite exciting to get that TG when one of mine is chosen! Also, I always try to monitor when it goes live to see how it is being received.

I think that Murdoctor [22] has been very helpful in explaining the process - thanks.

Really, I have no hard feelings at all BigSlick! I hope that the next time I have one published you will enjoy a bit more! ;-P

Thanks!

[22] All very good to know. I for one was obviously reading way too much into the hyper hiatus.

[23] No hard feelings here either! I normally like your puzzles a lot, so I am not at all concerned there.

ok, so if we are only going to get one puzzle every once in a while until further notice, why not leave that last puzzle at 20 points until the next one comes out? I mostly come in to play the crypto and they hyper, so if there are going to be 50% fewer puzzles to play and I don't have a clue about WHEN that missing half is going to be present, I'm not sure I want to stay up til 10pm every night to play. On occasion I do the OWWs but do not really enjoy them most of the time.

anyway, just a question.

[25] To my knowledge, there are no lack of Cryptos... just hypercrosses. And if you're only interested in the 20 points, you don't have to stay up until 10pm... just do the puzzles the next day. That's what I often do.

[24] After writing all of that, I realized there are so many other factors that are contributing to the lack of feature-able Hypercrosses. Clearly, they are the least contributed type of puzzle... but the main issue is that there are SO many things that can go wrong with them. You've got problems with misspelled answers, incorrect grid sizes, clues that don't cross properly in the grid, PNG versus JPG files, distorted images due to resizing, unclear or inconsistent themes, etc. In many cases, the puzzles are 95% good, but with just one or two clues or answers that need to be "fixed".

Think about it statistically. Let's say for example that 1 in every 10 puzzle images/clues need some "fixing up" (that's not a statistic based on actual analysis -- just a number I'm using for illustrative purposes). In the case of Cryptopixes and OWWs, that's still 9 out of 10 usable puzzles. In the case of Hypercrosses, since most of them have at least 8-10 answers, that means -- statistically speaking -- that EVERY puzzle will likely have something that needs correcting. And with so much more that can go "wrong" with a Hypercross (see my incomplete list above) versus the other puzzles, it really comes as no surprise that we're in this situation right now.

Hey all, moving and had no access.
I agree the hypercross quality is lacking lately, I am part of the problem. I think the real issue here is the creative level needed to get that "AHA" moment in a HC is getting tougher and tougher. My 4 elements idea looked (and still looks) awesome on paper, but doesn't work in the HC format.
Trying to keep your puzzles new and exciting is tough and finding the right image to get the correct expressions across can be a real time consumer.

Clearly part 4 of my elements theme set was not good enough and when corrections were suggested by a Mod, I scrapped the whole thing and started over. And am still not finished.

Good luck to all those making new HCs, if you are good with the pics I have a theme idea, drop me a TG.

[25] I didn't say anything about fewer cryptos - just hypers - but that really doesn't matter - I understand how difficult it is to create and then do quality control on the puzzles. I like to try to get into the top 100 as much as the next guy, but if I cannot...oh never mind...it's like trying to explain color to a blind bat - frustrating for me and totally ridiculous from the bat's point of view. What ever! This is a good place to visit and play some games...

[18] I thought that a Hyper that got rejected could just be edited and it would put it back into the review queue? At least that is what I understand from when I inquired about my rejected Hyper in the "Mods are a-modding" general discussion. Although, re-reading that post, I didn't specify it was a Hypercross.

I have a question. I created a hyper a bit ago. IT wasn't abundantly clear is I needed to do something to submit it or just leave it sitting there waiting to be reviewed/approved/featured. It's still just sitting there. No comments. No nuttin'. Does that mean it sucks and it won't be published? Or is there some "submit" button that I'm just not seeing?

[29] It works that way for the other puzzles, not the hypers... since they don't actually get "submitted".

[30] As long as it "looks" done, it'll be reviewed. Just be patient.

So, how about a Hypercross 'Hall of Fame' showing some good Hypercrosses and what made them fun? Something to spark new ideas?

Additionally, some kind of wiki of ideas that have been executed? I've tossed some ideas past some folks who have Tanga'ed longer than I have and they tell me someone has already done that them.

I've been coming to this site mostly to play the hypercrosses, and have decided to help with the drought by making some. I did one up the other day, but just wanted to know if there's some special way I'm supposed to "submit" it for posting/moderation.
Do I finish it up and just wait until something happens with it? Is there something I need to do to flag it as "ready"?

You should use mine it is awesomly fun for my first time making one.. This site is awesomely fn too..

[36] - see [31]

[34] Thanks! You make a lot of good sense Arnott (as usual).

[35] LoL

Re: "Submitted" Hypercrosses

It has been a problem ever since hypers could be created by the users. In the past I have suggested you put something in the title that indicates it's a work in progress (like - say - <title> - WORK IN PROGRESS.)

That will let the moderators know not to check it out yet.

When you are done, I also suggest you add *READY FOR REVIEW* to the end of the title and we would know it's ready. The moderators do have the capability of changing the title of the puzzle, so when it is ready to publish, the title can be changed to the final then.

What think you all?

Here's my two cents, take it or leave it...

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Let's face it, hypers are the funnest to solve, but the hardest to create.

Because they are so complicated, they really need a submit button, so we can tell the mods when we think it is ready.

The submit button could also do a spell check for known words, and at least check that the grid is aligned according to provided spelling.

Or instead of a submit button, you could just do a "ready" checkbox, and give moderators access to it. Then to reject a hypercross, they could just uncheck "ready", and provide feedback, instead of making people resubmit, as Murdoctor mentioned would be needed in [18].

The hard part of making these puzzles, aside from creativity, is creating the grid.

To encourage more submissions, the hypercross builder could be improved to include a traditional crossword builder to set up the grid without puzzle makers having to count squares manually.

An example crossword builder can be found at http://www.asymptopia.org/AsymptopiaXW/xw.html (GNU license) or from leadfoot's puzzle-making guidelines: http://www.puzzle-maker.com/CW/

This would also eleviate the pain of fixing an error, as the grid could just be re-generated.

Of couse, the hypercross builder would not need text clues put in, although that could put a nice twist on things sometimes (as would allowing audio or compressed video files).

Once the grid is good, visual clues can be added and edited easily, even as the system is now.

The other major improvement needed, is separating the solution and points of each answer, so that you could find out what's wrong, and get points for what's right. There's nothing worse than figuring out 14 of 15 answers, getting stuck on the last, and needing to log off. Well, getting 15 answers where there are multiple posibilities for one or more answers (not always predictable to puzzle maker), and not knowing which answers are wrong might be worse. The bulk of the points could still be saved for when you actually 'complete' the whole puzzle.

I know this is a daunting task, but it would pay off.

IMHO You'll lose a lot of traffic without your site's best feature.

The bottom-feeder drew me in, but it's the hyper-crosses that keep me coming back. I enjoy the other puzzles, but wouldn't go out of my way to do them, and I don't even pick numbers for most bottom-feeders any more (I'm not a big board game fan).

Of course, you could always go GNU with the hypercross builder, allowing you to start from asymtopia, and maybe even get free help from saavy tanganites...

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In the mean time...

-- I like leadfoot's idea of putting something like ****WIP**** at the beginning of hypers that are not ready to go. It would be a good idea to send out a system wide notification requesting puzzle-makers to do this, and update current works in progress with the WIP tag, since I don't think most people check the blog regularly (I had to ask leadfoot why the hypers disappeared).

-- Online crossword builders might be a good tool for puzzle makers to speed up the process a bit. (google "online crossword builder")

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While I'm on the topic of improvements, the following would be nice eventually:

OWW have finally become fun for me, but there was quite a learning curve at first. Maybe it would be a good idea to have a training ground for one word wonders. It could include a wiki that covers basic anagramming, various popular crypto techniques, etc, which would be written by the puzzle-makers for a few points maybe? It could also include several very easy OWW puzzles, submitted by puzzle makers for the purpose of helping others learn how to go about the OWW's.

[13] That depends on the difficulty. Some have had a lot of clues, but the clues were all fun and easy.

[25] I second that. Hypers are my main reason for coming on the site. I am busy with college homework and yardwork all weekend, so I don't usually do any weekend puzzles.

[32] "Would you feel (more) disappointed then if your puzzle were Unfeatured?" No, but since hypers take some time to build, a few pity points for not getting totally rejected would be nice.

[33] What he said.

[34] WOW! Thank you for your praise as well as your constructive criticism. I appreciate it!
[35] Very funny! :)

BTW -
I have verified that when a hypercross is rejected, the author does NOT have to regenerate it from scratch, but only has to go in and edit clues to have it resubmitted.