Perhaps they have friends in high places . . . ;-)

[1] It appears that they do!

Or a really good source for answers!

This is not an accusation.. but it is not without logic that a person *could* create two accounts:
Account #1 hits every puzzle and views solution (and also answer).. getting no TPs
Account #2 hits every puzzle with the answer gained from the actions of Account #1.

Now, I can't see why some one would spend the time to do this other than just boredom and a want to tip the system. I understand there is a bit of a reward for being on the leader board... but that seems like a bit of work for not much payout.

[4] luckily thats why solution isn't available until 24 hours after puzzle published so theres no bonus pts there :-)

So I guess the leader board is broken again, or still? Because I think I'm looking at the same person scoutmom is talking about, and the points listed in the recent activities don't add up to the total points. Not even close.

[6] The "recent activities" list hasn't been complete since the change over to the new server...

Okay, I know I'm griping about something that shouldn't really matter, but it bugs me. What's the purpose of clicking on a puzzle, typing in an answer you got somewhere else and going to the next one, without really solving any of them?

If you're not enjoying the puzzles, and just trying to get points so you can collect some Tanga cash...I don't know, it just bothers me. Even people who played Picathon around the clock were at least playing - not just taking answers from a list somewhere and typing them in.

Okay - getting off my soapbox. Please pardon the interruption.

[9] A lot of folken on that same soapbox scoutmom...

To give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they just happened to have a few days of down time? A while back, I had the flu and really needed a distraction. The huge backlog of unsolved puzzles certainly helped. (Yes, I know I'm a nerd!) I also know that solving those puzzles did push me higher up the leaderboard (once I noticed it was there).

Maybe that's what happened with these new members? Or is the number of solved puzzles just too high to be achieved without getting the answers from somewhere? I don't remember the names, so I don't know where to look for them on the leaderboards. Are they still there?

Anyway, just a thought. However, if it turns out they were performance-enhanced, please make room for me on that soapbox!

[11] Very nice of you to want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but...

I see that someone, in 7 minutes time, solved 7 easy OWW and 6 hard OWW. I doubt that person deserves the benefit of our doubt.

But seriously, what's the point? I don't get what's being gained. Is Tanga cash that big of a deal anymore? The only other explanation I can think of is they just want to tick off some of the members. Which, by the way, is awfully pathetic.

Just so you know ... Especially with all of the new unfeatured puzzles, you can print off a series of unsolved puzzles to be solved offline. Once solved, you then buzz right on through inputting the solutions.

I'm not so worried about the points. They're absolutely useless past the BF bump at 5K, right?

Here's the one that really irritates me ... people who solved hundreds of puzzles without any published ones. You can't tell me that somebody has the ability to solve 2000 puzzles yet hasn't had a single puzzle-worthy idea themselves. A complaint or criticism from these "puzzle sponges" really irritates me.

It would never happen, but I think one control mechanism for both of these problems would be a mandatory submission solve/submit ratio. For every 100 solved, you've got to have an accepted puzzle in the queue. Those who enjoy making the puzzles will go waaaay beyond that, but those who merely soak up puzzles will get into the act.

[13] CWarrior why? I enjoy solving puzzles, but I don't have the time and energy to create puzzles that I feel will be fun and enjoyable by the rest of the folks here. So I don't waste my time or yours. But I do enjoy solving puzzles.

[13] wait! WHAT??? Not everyone has an aptitude for creating puzzles .... as witnessed by some of the ones we've had to endure...

[13] So now I'm a "puzzle sponge"... way to go CWarrior.... I've been a member of this site since day one completing the puzzles and you call me a "puzzle sponge". I have no desire or time to create a puzzle, I just like solving them.

[13] I don't feel I am what you call "puzzle sponges". Unfortunately I do not have the creativity or computer knowledge to create puzzles.
I enjoy solving the puzzles others spend time creating and I appreciate their talents.

After the comments posted in the first hypercross I had published, I'm kinda leery about having any more published. I spent a great deal of time on the puzzle, making sure almost every clue connected with at least 2 others in the puzzle to help in solving, and the one word I mistakenly didn't connect had someone "ripping me a new one". Not a great incentive to spend the time to make more puzzles when it really is hard for me to do.

[18] Yes, creating puzzles takes a lot of time, but I don't think we should let criticism deter us from creating more. On some of my puzzles, I've had an odd mix of scathing critiques and high praise, so I think much of it is a matter of individual taste. That said, I've also learned a lot from criticism that I think (hope!) has improved my more recent puzzles. I try not to take criticism personally, and I really appreciate constructive criticism when it is offered. (Of course, I appreciate praise even more--I'm only human!)

[15] Well said! Forcing everyone to create puzzles makes about as much sense as saying "You have to solve one Hard OWW for each Cryptopix you want to solve." Some Tanganites come here just for a few minutes of fun--let them have it!

On being a "puzzle sponge" - well, I'm a "book sponge"
I am an avid reader, but realize I have no aptitude (nor time) for crafting stories that would be worthy of publishing... That realization makes me all the more appreciative of my favorite authors....

But --- it *DOES* bug me when someone who hasn't submitted puzzles rips into the authors. (well when anyone "rips" into the authors) They have taken a lot of time to craft the puzzle presented - and also put some ego on the line in presenting it. I do appreciate thoughtful and constructive criticism from all - but it doesn't have to be spiteful.

[13] I don't think you fully thought that post out.

At one time I thought anyone who dared criticize my puzzle(s) without having published a puzzle of his/her own was full of it, but I'm more tolerant now. In my case, I wanted to prove to myself that I could create a good puzzle that others would enjoy. Others probably don't need that sort of public affirmation or for a wide variety of reasons they simply don't want to invest the time needed to create a puzzle. I think, though, that some of the best solvers may sell themselves short.

[12]I agree
Unfortunately some of us have submitted puzzles but they haven't been accepted(who knows maybe they were accepted and they will be published in 2009)
I enjoy solving puzzles but creating them is hard work.
What burns me is when you give somebody salt and they give you a hard time because it didn't give them the answer

Wow! I knew the idea wouldn't fly, but I had no idea so many people would rise up in protest.

[14][15][17] Aptitude and desire aside, there are enough resources around that all someone has to do is ask for a little help. The mods have even made the process that much better. Throw out an idea and see what happens.

[16] It's not like I used a four letter word or a racial slur ... While not intended as a compliment, it's not exactly something you'd hear Don Rickles or Triumph the Insult Comic use. Will you suggest a better, more politically correct term?

[18] Sometimes the comments on a puzzle do squash any and all desire in new contributors. We as a community can be real turdy in the comments section. I think this is sad.

[19] It's not like I suggested a 1:1 ratio. Something in the neighborhood of 100:1 or even 250:1 isn't too much to ask for. That's about 2-4 puzzles a year. Is that too much to ask?

[20] I think the book vs puzzle comparison isn't entirely valid. One book takes months to write and you will likely never interact with the author (who is paid for the effort). The ability to write a book is vastly different than slapping together a Cryptopix.

[21] I don't know that I said anything that I need to retract. I realize that I was provocative, but it wasn't intended to be insulting. I still think you can't possibly solve 2000 puzzles without having at least one good idea yourself. And those who've solved 2000 puzzles have made plenty of comments on those puzzles, so they know what makes a good one, etc.

[22] Yeah ... frustrated solvers who flame salt-givers is another embarrassing thing around here. I'm guilty of doing this. I understand the frustration, but don't excuse it.

Sooo ... I guess I stirred up the pot on that one.

[23] Well, you stirred the pot up more than you know. Currently working on a "puzzle sponge" crypto. You have been warned...

[23] I don't know about mandatory the publish to solve, but maybe a mandatory publish to become STU. Anybody already STU could be grandfathered in.

And I agree puzzle making isn't that difficult. I know mine have not been great (some of them I made entirely in MS Word and took a screen shot and cropped it in Paint) I know and hopefully the solvers know the majority of us don't have the same talent\time as Murdoctor, Arnott etc...

But the cool thing is I/You am/are not them so I/we might think of something they never would have!

[13]-[25] These comments really have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Can we get back to solving the mystery of the "TP Bandits"? *snicker*

EDIT: for the record... I didn't flag any post for removal. I was simply trying to get the ridiculous tangent to halt so we could get back on track. TP thievery is no laughing matter... *snicker* ok maybe it is.

[26] maybe that's tanga joe's latest puzzle...we have to become tanga detectives and the first person to solve the mystery becomes a STUD (super tanga user detective)

[27] Oh, never thought of that!

Why are our comments being deleted? I posted nothing offensive, yet my last comment is gone.

[29] Not deleted - notice the gap in numbers. But folks can hit the flag this comment link. If a comment is flagged enough times, it is hidden from view.

I do not know if the admins can bring it back or not, but I am assuming that a few folks are flagging comments for some reason.

[23] My parents always told me to think before I said anything. So, I thought long and hard before posting this in order to consider my thoughts. This whole thing started because it was noticed that there are new members solving really fast.

For an example, a new user joins Tanga 9 days ago and has solved 599 puzzles already. In the first 22 hours of joining they solved 212 puzzles, yesterday alone they solved 30 puzzles in 18 minutes which consisted of 13 easy and 17 hard puzzles.

Another member also joins Tanga 9 days ago and has solved 548 puzzles already. Yesterday alone they solved 44 puzzles in 30 minutes which consisted of 4 crypto's, 27 easy and 13 hard puzzles.

And yet another member has solved 852 puzzles in 11 days, this is more than some long time members have solved ever during their many months here. And quite a few of us have been here since Tanga kicked off, so have been solving puzzles daily.

The above are just a few examples, there are more out there. There is no way they are solving back to back hard puzzles within a short amount of time, and I really don't think they are printing off the puzzles to work on later. They have clearly found another source and copying and pasting the answers. What's the fun in that.

Okay, getting back to what you said in [23]. Let's see, you have insulted a mod because they don't wish to create puzzles, and you are giving the same advice to a person who has created puzzles about there are resources out there.

You have clearly offended many on this site about your suggestion of in order to be a member and solve puzzles that they have to create a puzzle. Thats just riduculous, this site is not only about puzzles, it's about buying items also.

[26] here you go... want more?

[31] I have a sneaking suspicion your post is going to be gone soon.

Wow ... I know the thread was hijacked, but flagging various posts for removal? That's about a hundred times more ridiculous than anything I said. Of course, late comers to the thread will never know.

To recap for the late comers: I half-jokingly suggested a submit/solve ratio for puzzles. For every "x" you solve, you should have to submit "y" puzzles ... somewhere in the range of 100:1 to 250:1. From my very first sentence I said I knew it wouldn't fly. I just would like to see some of those who use the service contribute to it. That's not a revolutionary or insulting idea. There's actually precedent for it all over the 'net.

I'm actually pretty ticked about the stupid, needless censorship issue. I suspect you'll flag this comment too.

[29] because they can't handle the truth.

[30] they may be hidden, but they are saved, at least on my computer they are. Oh the joys of copying and pasting. ;-)

[32] if it is, I'll repost it... it's the truth... I did a lot of research to get those statistics... it appeared that many folks were giving the benefit of the doubt to the new users, so I did a little research for my own benefit and shared what I found so others can understand a little bit more of what is really being discussed.

[33] I agree with you about the censorship issue. There is no need for it when users are voicing their opinions to make Tanga a better place.

I have only ever flagged comments with foul language or too much salt or extremely rude comments like "this is the worst puzzle ever"

I am with [33] I don't think those comments should have been censored.

This is really getting quite silly. How in the world could my comment about creating a cryptopix of a "puzzle sponge" be offensive? Yes, the first comment upset some people - and it's gone - but this was a humorous (and IMO, better) way to try and lighten the situation.

In all, 11 comments so far have been removed. That to me is a strong indication that there are some out there who are flagging them for removal. I do not believe that Tanga Admin has been involved in this at all. If they were, then the whole thread would have gone away. Poof!

Now, for goodness sakes, play nice everyone and stop erasing other people's thoughts! :)

[36] If it's not the admins deleting, but rather some flagging by individuals, then I think Tanga needs to change the flagging policy. Flagging a comment should result in that comment being brought to the admins attention, not automatic removal.

I'd love to hear what the Monkey, Joe or Jen have to say about all of this.

Here are some of the deleted posts, so people can evaluate the need to have "flagged and deleted"

[4] from Monocle: This is not an accusation.. but it is not without logic that a person *could* create two accounts:
Account #1 hits every puzzle and views solution (and also answer).. getting no TPs
Account #2 hits every puzzle with the answer gained from the actions of Account #1.

Now, I can't see why some one would spend the time to do this other than just boredom and a want to tip the system. I understand there is a bit of a reward for being on the leader board... but that seems like a bit of work for not much payout.

[9] from me:

Okay, I know I'm griping about something that shouldn't really matter, but it bugs me. What's the purpose of clicking on a puzzle, typing in an answer you got somewhere else and going to the next one, without really solving any of them?

If you're not enjoying the puzzles, and just trying to get points so you can collect some Tanga cash...I don't know, it just bothers me. Even people who played Picathon around the clock were at least playing - not just taking answers from a list somewhere and typing them in.

Okay - getting off my soapbox. Please pardon the interruption.

[11] from Epaz:

To give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they just happened to have a few days of down time? A while back, I had the flu and really needed a distraction. The huge backlog of unsolved puzzles certainly helped. (Yes, I know I'm a nerd!) I also know that solving those puzzles did push me higher up the leaderboard (once I noticed it was there).

Maybe that's what happened with these new members? Or is the number of solved puzzles just too high to be achieved without getting the answers from somewhere? I don't remember the names, so I don't know where to look for them on the leaderboards. Are they still there?

Anyway, just a thought. However, if it turns out they were performance-enhanced, please make room for me on that soapbox!

[12] from pitamuffin:

[11] Very nice of you to want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but...

I see that someone, in 7 minutes time, solved 7 easy OWW and 6 hard OWW. I doubt that person deserves the benefit of our doubt.

But seriously, what's the point? I don't get what's being gained. Is Tanga cash that big of a deal anymore? The only other explanation I can think of is they just want to tick off some of the members. Which, by the way, is awfully pathetic.

[13] from CWarrior:

Just so you know ... Especially with all of the new unfeatured puzzles, you can print off a series of unsolved puzzles to be solved offline. Once solved, you then buzz right on through inputting the solutions.

I'm not so worried about the points. They're absolutely useless past the BF bump at 5K, right?

Here's the one that really irritates me ... people who solved hundreds of puzzles without any published ones. You can't tell me that somebody has the ability to solve 2000 puzzles yet hasn't had a single puzzle-worthy idea themselves. A complaint or criticism from these "puzzle sponges" really irritates me.

It would never happen, but I think one control mechanism for both of these problems would be a mandatory submission solve/submit ratio. For every 100 solved, you've got to have an accepted puzzle in the queue. Those who enjoy making the puzzles will go waaaay beyond that, but those who merely soak up puzzles will get into the act.
Refresh comments

To complete what scoutmom has started, here are some of the other comments that were deleted for reference...

******
comment [20] posted by leadfoot
on Thu Jul 10, 2008 09:17 PM

On being a "puzzle sponge" - well, I'm a "book sponge"
I am an avid reader, but realize I have no aptitude (nor time) for crafting stories that would be worthy of publishing... That realization makes me all the more appreciative of my favorite authors....

But --- it *DOES* bug me when someone who hasn't submitted puzzles rips into the authors. (well when anyone "rips" into the authors) They have taken a lot of time to craft the puzzle presented - and also put some ego on the line in presenting it. I do appreciate thoughtful and constructive criticism from all - but it doesn't have to be spiteful.

******
comment [21] posted by robrizob
on Thu Jul 10, 2008 09:26 PM

[13] I don't think you fully thought that post out.

At one time I thought anyone who dared criticize my puzzle(s) without having published a puzzle of his/her own was full of it, but I'm more tolerant now. In my case, I wanted to prove to myself that I could create a good puzzle that others would enjoy. Others probably don't need that sort of public affirmation or for a wide variety of reasons they simply don't want to invest the time needed to create a puzzle. I think, though, that some of the best solvers may sell themselves short.

******
comment [23] posted by CWarrior
on Thu Jul 10, 2008 09:57 PM

Wow! I knew the idea wouldn't fly, but I had no idea so many people would rise up in protest.

[14][15][17] Aptitude and desire aside, there are enough resources around that all someone has to do is ask for a little help. The mods have even made the process that much better. Throw out an idea and see what happens.

[16] It's not like I used a four letter word or a racial slur ... While not intended as a compliment, it's not exactly something you'd hear Don Rickles or Triumph the Insult Comic use. Will you suggest a better, more politically correct term?

[18] Sometimes the comments on a puzzle do squash any and all desire in new contributors. We as a community can be real turdy in the comments section. I think this is sad.

[19] It's not like I suggested a 1:1 ratio. Something in the neighborhood of 100:1 or even 250:1 isn't too much to ask for. That's about 2-4 puzzles a year. Is that too much to ask?

[20] I think the book vs puzzle comparison isn't entirely valid. One book takes months to write and you will likely never interact with the author (who is paid for the effort). The ability to write a book is vastly different than slapping together a Cryptopix.

[21] I don't know that I said anything that I need to retract. I realize that I was provocative, but it wasn't intended to be insulting. I still think you can't possibly solve 2000 puzzles without having at least one good idea yourself. And those who've solved 2000 puzzles have made plenty of comments on those puzzles, so they know what makes a good one, etc.

[22] Yeah ... frustrated solvers who flame salt-givers is another embarrassing thing around here. I'm guilty of doing this. I understand the frustration, but don't excuse it.

Sooo ... I guess I stirred up the pot on that one.

******
comment [24] posted by scoutmom
on Fri Jul 11, 2008 04:49 AM

[23] Well, you stirred the pot up more than you know. Currently working on a "puzzle sponge" crypto. You have been warned...

******

With regard to the original thread, I am beginning to suspect that the new members who seem to be such quick solvers may be dummy accounts created by Tanga admins to test various aspects of the site, such as Leaderboards or Recent vs. Friends Activities.

[40] You could be right. But whatever the case, the flagging/deleting of posts didn't really make any sense, which is why I reposted.

That being said, I think it's time to let this go away peacefully...

(except I really did create a puzzle sponge crypto....mwahahahahaa)

[41] You are too funny!

[38] LOL... I didn't even notice that my "How one *could* game the system" post had disappeared.

[40] And on the third day, IT said "let there be test servers".

Just seeing how many flags it takes to remove a comment ... This is the test message.

OK ... I just flagged [44] five times, but I don't think it effectively counts more than once (perhaps it counts individual usernames rather than individual clicks on the 'flag' link).

So, I'm the first user to flag [44]. If you flag it too, leave a note. We'll see how long it takes to go away.

[45] It's gone - and I didn't even flag it.

BTW, [44] was just a simple test message. Nothing insidious in there.

Maybe my five flags was enough to remove it. It took less than a minute.

[45] is gone too? I was just saying that it would be nice to know how many flags it takes to remove a message.

... okay ... this is annoying. Somebody is removing messages as fast as I can post them!

I think the original "Here's How to Cheat Tanga" post (as unintentional as it was) was removed for obvious reasons, the same way the FBI would remove a thread about how to sneak into the White House. All comments about free expression aside I think if it is folks "cheating" then TCash maybe should be reworked? And if it is Mods or Admins testing, wouldn't they tell us?

To discuss this rampant censorship garbage, go to this thread: http://www.tanga.com/forum/blogs/1667-Censorshi....

What do you want to bet they're going to clip this comment too?

Look at this comment number ... I've had about a dozen posts that have been expunged.

I'm not saying anything inappropriate. This is a very bad sign. I don't understand why comments can be so easily deleted.

Will the anonymous comment killer at least stand up and identify yourself? Or are you going to continue your bullying while hiding behind a shroud of anonymity?

BTW, I will keep posting to this thread until the censorship stops. I'm on a principle-based rampage now!

I also just noticed that several "recap" comments detailing what had been in previous posts have been removed as well.

[53] My [48] comment was removed, but then again, I kind of expected it to be. I'm going to run a test in another thread to see if a certain number of people tagging a thread will cause that comment to disappear.

Oh, COME ON!!! This is ridiculous!

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey...

Can whoever is flagging please let me know WHY a post about a cryptopix was so offensive it needed to be removed? I've posted a link to the silly little thing in [56].

And I agree with [52], at least let us know what your reasoning is for doing this. Send me a TG. Honest, I don't bite and I won't tell anyone who you are! Scout's honor. (And I DON'T kid about that!)

I missed all the brouhaha! Anyone wanna TG me the juicy bits?